The Value of Preserving Traditional African Names

Virgin Poster Joined: Dec 30, 2006 Posts: 3

Earlier this week I married a Liberian woman whom I have fallen in love with over the past 2 years. Being I am a white European-American with a European name, I requested that she keep her original last name, particularly because I want our children to have traditional African last names (their mother's name) so that they appreciate their mother's heritage/ancestry and identify themselves with an African culture rather than a European-American culture, which bears the blame for many of the problems in the world today. Unfortunately, she refused my request and insisted on taking my last name, stating that only by taking my last name would she be able to legitimize the marriage.
Does anyone have any ideas as to how I can convince her to give our child(ren) her last name, or perhaps I am mis-guided in thinking that this is so imporant????

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:14 pm

Let us put it like this..

Your wife married you. So she no longer has her father's surname.
She now has your surname. Indicating she belongs to you.
In turn any children born of the marriage automatically take Your surname
indicating that the children are yours.

Your children belong to you. They are your descendants. Any male child
you have in turn carries your surname. Any daughters you have will drop your surname when they marry and will take on their new husband's last name.

Let me use myself as an example of how things work in inter- racial marriages.
My father is a Nigerian who married my mother who is English.
She automatically takes on his surname when they married.
Now the children come into the picture.
We belong to our father and mother who are Mr & Mrs Xyz.
So we have our parents surname which originally belonged to my father.

All of us have Nigerian first names, indicating that we are Nigerians, we also have English names showing that we also belong to our Mother and recognise our English side.

Parents automatically bring up their children with the values they want them to have. I cannot recall my Parents ever saying Now here is lesson1 in culture. Rather, through example and observation we learnt about both sides of the coin.

Your wife does not stop being herself just because she has married you.
Infact you will find that a lot of her ways are still done, as per how she was brought up. Your children will instinctivly learn and adopt both of your cultures.

Let your children be individuals. When I am amongst my family on my mother's side, I do not kneel down for my elders as I would for the elders in My Father's family. Your children will adapt to what ever situation
they find themselves.

Do not deny who you are. It is almost as if you wish you could wipe out that part of their DNA. Forget about what negative people have done in the past. Always let your children know you are proud of your race.

As for if the marriage is legitimate or not if they have your wife's name, as far as I know, once you are married those children are not and can never be illegitimate since they are not born out of wedlock.
Your marriage is legal it cannot become otherwise if you give your child the wife's name.

If there is a law somewhere that states otherwise I stand corrected, but I have never heard of such a thing.

If anything..a child bearing it's Mother's name in the western world usually indicates that the father is out of the picture.

Please don't allow your children to carry that burden. Imagine them being bullied because they don't have their Father's name.

At the end of the day, if they do not like their surname they can legally change it when they are older.

My Sister is married to an English man. Her children have English names
because their father is English , and they have their father's surname because this is His family. Trust me my niece and nephew know all about their family on their Mother's side, and they do understand the culture.

Just relax be proud of your surname and your back ground. You are not responsible for the negative things done to other races. Shake off that guilt please. It is not healthy. Or do you want your children who are part of you to grow up thinking of their father's race as Bad?
Infact that would be ironic, considering they have white in them.

Virgin Poster Joined: Dec 30, 2006 Posts: 3

SisiPancake--Your thorough and well-rounded response is much appreciated, (but after all, well-rounded responses are exactly what should be expected from a pancake, aren't they?--- forgive the sorry attempt at humor).
Perhaps this issue of naming centers more around the topic of gender hierarchy than that of race. In response to the question I posed, you reply, "She now has your surname indicating she belongs to you."
But, is ownership of a woman a male prerogative only, or is the male just as much the possession of the female he marries as she is his?
I suspect you would say that not only does she belong to me, but also I belong to her, but I would tend to avoid the use of language implying ownership at all costs....because "ownership" objectifies rather than humanizes. Correct me if I am wrong, or steer me in the right direction if I have a distorted perspective on this.
The point is, if her taking my name implies that I own her, than that is all the more reason for me to discourage her from taking my name....because as far as I'm concerned, she is her own person and I have no right to ownership, because a wife is not an object to be owned but an equal towards whom I surrender any right to ownership that my culture would impose.
Because of historical Americo-Liberian cultural domination over Liberian society (which is directly tied to American colonialism), indigenous Liberian peoples wishing to attend school at university level typically had to adopt a European name requisite to matriculation. Essentially, they had to renounce their culture as inferior to that of the "ruling class" --the Congo people--transplanted from America.
Please understand that my concern about names-- the name of my wife and the names of my children-- coheres around an effort to reverse the tragic effects of this unfortunate historical reality.
Your response to my original message has been taken to heart. I only want to probe a little deeper into the issue than I originally had. Perhaps when this is over I will only realize that I am placing too much stock in the value of names, but at the moment, I perceive names to play a critical and vital role in the transmission of cultural worth from one generation to another.

Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:37 pm

Benjamin79 Happy New year I wish you nothing but joy for 2007

OOO you make SisiPancake smile...I love the use of a well rounded pancake, as it goes I am well known for my pancakes. You want to see
how people come to visit me just so I make them pancakes Razz

Now back to the discussion at hand. When I used the word belonged, I did not mean it in a manner to reflect possession. We all know that man and woman become one unit to have and to hold, till death. Excuse the use of the old vows, I do realise people love to make their own write ups
to express what they feel. How ever they still all mean we belong together.

Name is an identity. The same happened in Nigeria, Missionaries came and people had to take on Christian names and drop their traditional names.

If you have watched the film Roots, you will see that Kunta Kinte, refused to accept the name given to him by the white masters. He was flogged to the point of death. When they would ask while he being beaten *what is your name* he would reply *Kunta Kinte*

Let me bring something to your notice..has it ever dawned on you that all these Matthew Mark,Luke, John, mary etc names are not English?
All those names taken from the Bible are Hebrew, Greek, or Aramaic names. The languages spoken by the people back in those days.

In life there is order. As from when the world began, woman was made from man's rib, indicating the bond of man and woman.
Your leadership and headship is not tyranical but rather caring and nurturing.
Check the original meaning of the word dominate. It means to rule over
lovingly.
People need a sense of belonging, they need to know where they come from, the family history etc.

By the same token, there must be an orderly fashion of knowing what all our various positions are in the family.
Take your body. Your blood supply and heart are what makes you alive.
Your legs have a different function and without them, life is difficult.
Your hands too have their role to play in life. They are all part of you.

Would you look at your body and say..well little finger, you are the least important because you are small? Besides you don't do much all you do is sit on the end of my hand.
Every part of our body is vital and equally important.

A woman leaves her family to marry and becomes one with her Husband
The standard in the world is children have fathers last name. It identifies them.

Humans all over the world have committed atrocities against fellow humans.
You are carrying that guilt. By you insisting your children have their Mother's name you are proving that you are nobody. I know you are somebody..I just want you to see how things are percieved.

This is your family. Be Proud, Walk Tall.
I know what I am talking about. My son in law is English.
Nigerians ask me why my grand daughter does not have a Yoruba name. Very simply
I tell them, She belongs to her Father. The father has His culture and
traditions. This is His family and He is proud of who He is.

And No!!!! I do not want Him ever to be ashamed of his race.
He is not guilty of any atrocities againt another race.

You are an Individual, Rise Up.. Be a Leader not a submitter.

I take it you will be called Mr. and Mrs. Abc.
The word Mrs means property of Mr.
So you are still stuck with this issue.
Or will you be dropping the Mr and Mrs. aswell?

All it serves to indicate is this woman belongs to Mr.Abc
This is the woman he loves and wants to spend the rest
of His life with. Very Happy

President Poster Joined: Mar 04, 2006 Posts: 145

I'm really conflicted by this topic.
I don't think I can comment objectively.

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:47 am

DSP , what are you're inital thoughts tho?

President Poster Joined: Mar 04, 2006 Posts: 145

SisiPancake wrote:

DSP , what are you're inital thoughts tho?

lol, sometimes it's good to be slow to speak.

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:09 am

Ok [/b]

Virgin Poster Joined: Dec 30, 2006 Posts: 3

If I may diverge from the topic at hand for a moment....SisiPancake....being you are Yoruba/English, can you lend me your perspective on the Blair-Bush alliance, and also on the Obasanjo-Bush relationship? I suspect someone of your disposition would have a perspective on this. Nothing you say could offend my American sensibilities, so speak your mind.
Also briefly back to the issue of names and naming and European vs. African names: I have to take issue with your "nickname" or username for this site. It is far too European, being pancakes are generally considered a European food. I would suggest your promptly substitute "pounded-yam-cake" in the place of "pancake" in your username. Now, perhaps, I am taking this issue of naming too far.
(This entire paragraph was intended as a joke.)

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:48 pm

lmao

as it goes..sisi is pigin English for young woman
Pancake is reference to makeup.. the whole lipstick, eye shadow etc being applied in vast quantities.

The Irony is that I am not a young woman and I don't wear make up.
Razz

As per the politics thing, start a new topic and we can discuss it there. Exclamation

Forums Moderator Joined: May 18, 2005 Posts: 1023

Benjamin79
As Sisi said, the children are yours and should carry your name.
Now whether that makes your marriage legit.........from the moment you said "I do", it was legit; both in the eyes of God and man!

When I came to the US, that was my main concern. How to raise my children with the same family values I had learned?
I kept true to our culture. I shared my memories and oral history with my kids. My mother and I prepared dishes from both Liberia and Sierra Leone, of which I am a product.

My mother, being a decendant of Sierra Leone, took her husband's name without any worries. My father never once thought about the possibility that his children would lose their "Sierra Leonean" identities. My siblings and I all have names from Sierra Leone that have meanings, we are more than acquainted with the culture, food, history and people.

What causes the loss in culture, is when we do not pass down that culture or chose to raise our children as "westerners". You and your wife should discuss how you will raise your children, and stick to it!

I have a cousin who is married to an Irish man! Though she did not take her husband's name, her children did. The boys have been to Liberia and Ireland. They have names from both countries. They eat more African food than anything else (their choice). And have no problem fitting into either culture. Her husband (we say) is more African than she is; but that's another thread in itself.

So with all these examples, celebrate your marriage to a wonderful woman, whose culture, mannerism, and history will add hues of color to yours. And look forward to the day when you start sounding like a Liberian ( you know it's just a matter of time) Laughing

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:45 pm

Putting it simply, I call it having the best of 2 worlds.
We always had both English and Nigerian food & clothes.
We enjoyed both speaking in Yoruba and English. It came
naturally.

Forums Moderator Joined: May 18, 2005 Posts: 1023

I don't think I sound authentic in Creole, but I keep pressing on! Onna watch out! LOL

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:18 pm

Come and listen to my British Yoruba accent. People laugh at me Laughing

I don't care lol, at least I can speak and understand.

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:40 am

Oh man I miss a good topic again.......

I will respond anyway...

Now Benjamin if you are coming back to the forum. You can or maybe have hopefull convinced your wife.

My mother is American and my dad Liberian. All my Mother's brothers married Caucasion women so my brother and I are the only 100% black and african at that....(smile). So I have experience with cousins that are very intersting needless to say.

Now for a mixed child it is very important for the mother and the father to teach them about both cultures so they don't get comfortable in one.....this enables the child to have a well rounded upbringing....instead of being multi with a white outlook on things or multi with a black/liberian outlook on things......it limits numerous possibilities.......

EXAMPLE-------OBAMA

I guess I do have the advantage with all the current news..hehehehe